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Frequently Asked Questions, including the ones you have been afraid to ask...

Most of these lists have predictable, generic answers designed to offend no one, "popularize" the breed and meet the most stringent criteria for political correctness, something that could be kicked out with the blessing of the most mundane corporate PR and legal departments. Well, this here is the Jim Engel most frequently asked question page, and we ain't got no lawyers and, obviously, modern PR has yet to make it far enough out in the country to reach Marengo. So if you don't want to know what I think, click your little clicker Froggie and go see one of the nice lists !

Are Bouviers good with children?
OK, lets take a really serious, no nonsense look at this. If you went through Dog World from front to back and asked each breeder this question, 99 and 44/100 percent would reply with cute stories about how their breed and their dogs in particular are so nice with children. I mean, "good with children" is part of the standard PR packet for every breed. But the reality remains that thousands of people, including a disproportionate number of children, are severely injured by dogs ever year, and about 10 to 20 fatalities occur per year. Bouviers are big strong dogs, and the wrong situation can lead to disaster with this as well as any other breed.

This said, in general, with proper training, of both the dogs and the children, in almost all circumstances Bouviers can become excellent companions for the whole family.

Iron, my Schutzhund III male, can play frisbee unsupervised with my five and six year old grand children, and Quinn, also Schutzhund titled, moved in to live with my daughter and grand children as a mature adult who had never been around children, with no problems.

(Our book has a whole section on building good family relationships to insure that the dog can truly become the companion and protector of the children.)

What about grooming?
If you spend twenty minutes a week vigorously brushing out the coat and trim or have the dog trimmed every few weeks then you can have a clean, attractive dog year round.

What about shedding?
It really is true, those who do minimal grooming will find that there is very little loose hair in the house. Years ago, when we had one shepherd and several Bouviers in the house, 95% or more of the hair was from the Shepherd.

What is the difference between males and females ?
No matter how many laws the do gooders pass, in dogs at least there will always remain fundamental differences between the sexes. The males are in general bigger, more independent, aggressive and head strong. Bitches are smaller and more likely to get their way by guile than a blatant show of dominance, and in general more successful at it. Bitches go into season and become even more bitchy. Many of our males, such as Gambit and Iron, are or were extraordinarily affectionate dogs and good house dogs. We have never had a male with a tendency to run off the property, although a few of the bitches have had a propensity to wander. On the whole, bitches are a little easier to live with, but there are exceptions, of which we have had many....

Which sex for work?
Males are strongly predominant in police work and police style sport competition such as Schutzhund and KNPV. This has to do with the size and aggressiveness of the males, the fact that they don't come into season and the fact that most handlers seem to gravitate to the macho image, including female handlers. In general, the person seeking a dog primarily for police work or serious protection sport competition will usually look for the best male he can find. ( Males and females in herding seems to be much more evenly balanced, although my general impression is that at the top levels males are still predominant. )

How are Bouviers different from German Shepherds or other "police style" dogs ?
In general, the similarities are more important than the differences; if you think of German Shepherds or similar breeds as "too rough" or "too aggressive" then you should be thinking about another breed. I have no objection to breeding dogs to be soft, easy to live with family companions, and the Black Labs and some of the retrievers provide an ample supply of worthy candidates. But I do object to watering down the police breeds, and so should you; the breed should mean something in character as well as appearance.

But we just want a companion dog, does this mean that we should avoid the "Police breeds" or the "working lines" ?
Not necessarily. The vast majority of our dogs, and the dogs from most "working line" breeders, go into family companion situations. If you want a strong dog who can still be an excellent, easy to live with in the house companion then a working line Bouvier can be something you will remember for the rest of your life. But you must be the leader, and you must take the responsibility to train the dog and show him the rewards of correct behavior. Above all else, talk to your breeder, as there is a big range of aggressiveness, hard headedness and chase drive within the working lines and among individuals, even in the same litter. If you are thinking of one of our pups, I will tell you the secret: Tell Kathy what you want, make her believe that you know what you want and can deal with it and you will get the best possible shot. That's what I always do.

What is all this talk about "show dogs" and "working lines" ?
Good question. The truth of the matter is that the differences between the working lines and the show lines in America are much more pronounced and important than the differences between the working breeds. The German Shepherds winning in American AKC shows today are oversized, lop eared monstrosities who slink around the ring because of inborn defects in character and because they have been bred for extreme angulation and the long sloping top line in the service of the god "side gait." Anybody who has any understanding and appreciation of the history and purpose of the breed can't help but be embarrassed by the spectacle. The show line Bouviers are not far behind, being bred for profuse coat, massive appearance and with total disregard for working character.

In general, Shepherds coming out of Germany and German lines bred in America - some of which are most excellent - provide the public at large the opportunity of buying the real thing, something Americans are gravitating to in increasing numbers.

Unfortunately, Bouviers coming out of European show breeding, especially the Dutch, are no better than what comes out of the American show breeding. Sad to say, serious Bouvier breeding is not the norm in Europe, and the Bouvier enthusiast has much less choice when he looks for dogs of the original working heritage.

What serious genetic problems exist in the breed?
An apparent propensity for gastric torsion in a number of lines is in my opinion the most serious genetic problem in the Bouvier. Hip dysplasia is an ongoing problem, and always will need to be tested for. Thyroid problems have been serious in some lines, and a significant incidence of sub-aortic stenosis (genetic heart disease) has been reported. All of our dogs are radiographically examined for hip dysplasia, and we do thyroid testing and other tests on a case by case basis. We have increasing concern about the incidence of glaucoma (eye problems) in the breed and we are doing some spot checking.

On the whole, tight breeding, especially in some show lines, rather than any specific genetic problem is the most serious danger for the future of the breed. Remember, you don't breed better dogs by spending ever increasing amounts of money enriching the vets so you can go on blindly breeding to the "winners," you breed better dogs by working together, on an international level, to maintain a divergent gene pool and distinct lines. In the over all scheme of things, testing is a very important but still secondary part of the picture.

Another thing, while I am at it: breeds are not "ruined" by "over breeding." The fundamental mechanisms driving the debasement of breeds are blind mass breeding to the "show ring winners" and the rapid increase in population which comes with surges in popularity.

Ya got any of dem der stylish white Bouviers?
Never on purpose, and they are sold only on a not to be bred basis. White, cream colored and other washed out colors are not and never have been correct. Any breeder who produces white, cream colored or washed out "fawn" Bouviers on purpose, advertises them or promotes them demonstrates fundamental ignorance and blatant disrespect for the heritage of the breed. Shun them and call them nasty names whenever you run into one of them, you will be doing a service for the breed, especially if they claim to be from Belgium.

Is Bigger Better?
No, males much over about 95 pounds and bitches over 85 pounds are too damn big, both from the point of view of the standard and because it is very difficult to maintain the agility and stamina in work which should be the hallmark of the breed.

Is that right? People tell me you breed and train bigger dogs!
This is true, and we will do so in the future when such dogs are over all the best we have available. Breeding is the art of compromise, and a good big dog with strong character can sometimes be the best available breeding material. When there is a large gene pool of medium sized dogs producing strong, correct working Bouviers it will be time to throw stones at those who choose to breed over sized dogs. But don't start gathering up your pile, I guarantee that you won't live long enough to throw any yourself.

Pam Green says ya gotta let them sleep in da bed, is this really true?
Pam sometimes gets a little carried away. Some Bouviers do indeed sleep wherever they want, but others live in a kennel or are confined to certain sections of the house. If you have allergy problems, it sometimes makes all the difference in the world to absolutely keep the dogs out of the sleeping area. All of our dogs spend some time in our kennel, which is a converted horse barn with ten by ten stalls, each with an insulated "den" for sleeping, and are rotated as house dogs, usually with one male and one female in the house at any time.

How much do they cost?
Dogs, good and bad, can be had for free up to $100,000 and, I suppose, even more. Well established breeders generally sell pups in the $600 to $1200 price range. We on occasion retire older dogs to homes, but this is on a very selective basis. We also from time to time take a dog back and place it. Again, sometimes these dogs are placed without a big price tag, and sometimes we train such dogs and sell them, on occasion for a great deal of money.

What about "Rescue" dogs?
Rescue dogs are dogs which the various Bouvier clubs accept from people who can not or will not care for them and seek to place them in new homes. Rescue dogs can be an economical way to get a good dog, and we very much support such programs. But you need to be careful, somebody is getting rid of the dog for a reason. In general we don't mind losing a sale to the rescue people, and work with them whenever possible, usually helping to evaluate dogs claimed to be aggressive. /p>

Will you please quit picking on so called "show kennels?"
Historically, the Bouviers, German Shepherds and Malinois, among others, were created as police style working breeds. I believe in this to the bottom of my soul, that to be a true member of these protective heritage breeds a dog must be willing to work even against a very aggressive man who challenges the dog, and then, of course release on command. This is the culture of the founders, and for me this is the Bouvier, a standard I can not compromise.
Most others in America see the Bouvier as a pet and show dog. These are irreconcilable differences. On one level, I respect those such as Claire McLean who consistently hold that the Bouvier should be bred as a soft pet, inherently unaggressive, for even though they are creating a new and lesser breed, they do not pretend to produce working dogs.
My displeasure is primarily directed at the show breeders who pretend that they have working dogs. I will continue to "pick on" such kennels until they nail my coffin shut.

How could I have just gotten lucky with two from the same kennel if show kennels were nothing but fluff n stuff? My Bouviers from a well known show kennel have had remarkable character.
The problem here is in the definition of "remarkable character." For me a dog with remarkable character is one who will persist in an old track on a hot day, execute his obedience with enthusiasm and style and dominate the agitator on the protection field no matter how strong and aggressive he might be. Today very few Bouviers live up to this standard, but once you have lived with one you can never be satisfied with less.
Companion dog owners are often quite satisfied with much less, a happy dog who is reasonably obedient, enjoys playing in the back yard and will bark at a stranger. I do not say that such dogs are bad, and in this sense a lot of breeders can produce such companion dogs.
But these dogs are a new and lesser breed, not the bold defenders of the Flemish plane which inspired the founders to create the Bouvier des Flandres.

Jim Engel, Marengo    © Copyright 1990